編按：1969年9月24日前比丘恆謙之父福克斯先生，應邀來舊金山佛教講堂用午餐，餐後與上人談話。本文為當時的羅果瞻居士由其筆記中整理出來，刊登於英文《金剛菩提海》月刊1970年8至10月號﹝第5、6、7期﹞。事隔多年，上人的風趣睿智，歷久彌新，本刊特將其譯成中文，與後學們共享。
福克斯先生上午10時到達，靜靜用齋用茶後談話開始。當談及睡眠時––
福克斯先生：在我工作的地方有很多噪音，奇怪的是當夜深人靜時，那怕是最小的聲音我都可以聽到，即使門把手旋轉聲也不例外，有時在睡覺時也聽到聲音。
上人：感官門頭領納的最輕微感受，都儲存入藏識為第八識的種子。這些種子雖然只是感官對象的影子，它們未來可能被第六識分別。第六思辨識會不停地將感受回憶起來，雖然這些感官對象早已不存在了。你所說的境界，是由於思維分別才升起的，當分別停止時，這些境界也就停止了。如果你不執著於這些妄境，就不會再擔憂煩惱。做完一件事後，將它忘掉，再去做下一件事；任何事都不要當做究竟真實的。《金剛經》上說，一切有為法，如夢幻泡影，如露亦如電，應做如是觀。
福克斯先生：熱時，我們就少穿幾件衣服，冷時，我們如果穿得不夠暖就會發抖。外面冷，我們心中就覺得冷；外面熱，我們心中就覺得熱：冷熱的狀態看來是很真實的。
上人：你的思維如果不去分辨冷熱，冷熱就不存在；冷熱不存在時，誰又能感覺到冷熱呢？同樣的道理也適用於一切有為法。如果我們不做不必要的分別，我們原本平靜的心就仍處於不被干擾的境界。
福克斯先生：技術進步與佛教的關係如何？隨著時代的變化，新東西的發明，就有了進步。每個人都是製造不同東西的個體；每個人都一個天賦的頭腦，頭腦就是要用的，不斷地進行思維。
上人：不錯，科技確實有了長足的進步，可是還有件比科技進步更重要的事。「進步」，會將我們導引至何處？五百年後，所有今天的發明都過時了，那時所用的又都是更新的發明了。當一切都發明出來之後，人又做些甚麼呢？重要的是什麼為先？是社會應該為人類服務，還是人類為社會服務？現在的社會秩序是人類為社會奉獻，維持社會，可社會卻無視於人類的苦惱和所受的虐殺，這是個嚴重的錯誤。如果社會為人類的需要而服務，世界就會和平地運作；世界和平地運作時，人就能自由自在地觀照自性，考慮生死的重大問題。
你應該知道自己從哪裡來，到哪裡去？所謂「來時糊塗去時迷」，重要的是要迴光返照參自性。你如果向內參究，就不會被社會的迷茫所影響。見到自性後，很自然地就會懂得科學與哲學。
福克斯先生：這些聽起來當然很理想，可是我不相信所有的人都能這樣一心一意地追求。我們大家都不一樣，每個人都有其天然的性情，不一定所有的人都能成就這一事業。
上人：你說得太對了，只有很少人有這種根性，這種天然的性情和能力，來研究修行大乘佛法，這甚至也是很少人能遇上的事。遇上的人中，能修行深入其中道理的人更少。這很難的，可如果我們能夠去做最難的事，那才是眞正的成就。有人來這兒學習，住上幾天之後就受不了了，不得不走。
如果一個人明白了眞正的道理，他就能去做要做的事；如果十個人明白了眞正的道理，他們就能去做要做的事。佛菩薩教化眾生，不擔心眾生接不接受。如果人懂了，開悟了，佛菩薩高興；如果沒有人懂，沒有人開悟，佛菩薩仍然高興。貪心，使人無法解決問題的核心，障蔽著人沒法見到自性。例如我有個弟子想學神通，可是只要他貪著，就沒法得到神通。
現在在西方佛法很少見，所有未悟的人有了迷惑，只有正法可以去除它，所以你兒子發心做比丘研究佛法是極其重要的。
迷惑從哪來？基本的原因就是貪：貪財、貪色、貪名、貪食、貪睡；每個人都因為貪而起欲望，放下很困難。我教導弟子們要堅強地節制欲望，但是我不強迫，我只是告訴他們方法，做不做是他們的事。如果教授與此相牴觸的方法，那就是石頭壓草；用石頭壓住草，草反而長得又密又壯。我不這樣做，我去找到的是根，是最基本的原因。
福克斯先生：我很敬佩你所講的道理，和你如此精進鑽研的弟子。我從前還為兒子擔憂，現在我放心了。
上人：你回去工作後，不要再為已經過去的事擔心，做事時用智慧做好，完成後就不要再去想了，將心平靜下來，最好將人生視為一場戲，不要太當眞，這樣就沒有甚麼憂慮和問題了，就可以獨立來去自由。如果能看到一切事物在根本上沒有差別，你就沒有問題了，一點麻煩也沒有了。如果你分別善的是善，不善的是不善，那就被外境所轉了。如果追逐外境，你越迫離本來的家迷失得越遠；如果保持不動，你就仍然在本來的家中。將你的身體視為天地，雖然天地包容萬物，可是它們卻不是分離的。如果懂了這個道理，世間就沒有甚麼會使你苦惱或擔心。這是不是很奇妙呢？
「法」--佛的教導，是無處不入的，無有定法。法，永遠是像河中的水，平穩地流動卻又不執著於任何地方。如果你說某種法是固定的，那它馬上就變成了死法。《金剛經》上說「應無所住而生其心」，這就是「無有定法」的意思。
「不定法」的一個例子就是親子關係，父母要讓孩子孝敬，可是有的孩子打殺父母，「孝」，這種法又如何能固定呢？有的父母經常喝斥孩子，有的卻認為孩子很好，慣著他們，這些情形都不合於孝道。因此在父母眼中這個法並不固定，沒有任何東西是永久確定的。
我們討論到技術的進步，人發明了許多非常有用的東西，可是氫彈原子彈也發明了出來，產生了奇怪難治的疾病。現代的方便既有益處又有災害，所以是善惡夾雜。
在火車、汽車發明之前，沒有甚麼火車出軌和車禍，也沒有人因此喪生。過去的人都死在家中，現在意外死亡大大增加。飛機突然從天上掉下來，這就好像吃人。很久以前人擔心老虎，可老虎一次只吃一兩個人，現在一次火車、飛機失事就吃掉幾百人。我們可以提高警覺避開老虎，可是現在乘客沒有辦法保證自已能免於火車、飛機失事。這就是「對立法」的一個例子，一切事情都有對立的東西；善對惡，迷惑對瞭解，眞對假。
福克斯先生：這並不是飛機、火車，或機器造成的，而是製造、使用、維護這些機器的人造成的事故。
上人：對。災害產生於業——眾生的行為，所以不能說機器是善還是惡。
兩千年前如果告訴人有飛機、汽車和自動推進的車輛，他們不會相信的。那時要是有飛機從上空飛過，人或許會奉為神明，可我們現在知道飛機就是飛機，是人造的東西，是科技進步的結晶。
待續
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Editor's Note:
Mr. Fox was invited to lunch at the Buddhist Lecture Hall
in San Francisco on September 24,1969, by his son, Dharma Master Heng Ch'ien, on behalf of Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua. The following record of the meeting was compiled from the notes of Upasaka Kuo-Chan Lovett and originally published in the English-only Vajra Bodhi Sea, Issues 5, 6, and 7 (August to October, 1970). Though the meeting took place many years ago, the Venerable Master's sagacious remarks deserve a fresh look after such a long time. Thus we have translated it into Chinese and published it for our readers to enjoy.
Mr. Fox arrived at ten o'clock. After a quiet meal, tea was served and conversation began. The conversation turned to the topic of sleep .
Mr. Fox: Where I work there is a great deal of noise. Strangely enough, at night, when it is quiet, I am sensitive to the smallest sound, even the turning of a doorknob, and occasionally I hear sound in my sleep.
Venerable Master: Whenever the slightest sensation is experienced through the doors of the senses a "seed" is introduce into the store, or eighth, consciousness. It is planted there in the field of the eighth consciousness and stored. Although these seeds are mere shadows of sense objects, they can later be discriminated by the sixth consciousness. Therefore, the sixth consciousness, the intellect, may continuously recollect sensations, even though the sense object is no longer present. States of mind such as the one you have mentioned arise because the intellect discriminates; if discrimination ceases, these states also cease.
If you are not attached to these false states, your worries and afflictions will be diminished. After doing something, forget it and go on to the next matter. Nothing should be taken as ultimately real. As the Vajra Sutra says: All conditioned phenomena Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, and shadows, Like dew drops or a lightning flash: One should contemplate them thus.
Mr. Fox: When it is hot, we are comfortable wearing few clothes. However, when it is cold, if we are not warmly dressed, we shiver. If it is cold outside, then in our minds there is cold. It is hot outside, then in our minds there is hot. The states of hot and cold certainly seem real.
Venerable Master: If your intellect does not discriminate between hot and cold, they do not exist. When hot and cold do not exist, who feels either one? The same principle is true of all conditions. If we refrain from making unnecessary distinctions, our original peace of mind remains undisturbed.
Mr. Fox: How does technological progress relate to Buddhism? As times change, new things are invented, and there is progress. Each man is an individual who creates different things. Each of us has been given a mind meant to be used; minds continually think.
Venerable Master: Yes, there certainly has been a great deal of progress in technology, but there is something which is even more important than technological progress. Where does "progress" lead us? In five hundred years, all present day inventions will be obsolete, and entirely new inventions will be in use. When everything has been invented, what will man do then?
The important point here is one of priority. Should society serve man or should man serve society? In the existing order, men devote their efforts to maintain society, but society disregards the suffering and murder of men. This is a grave error. When society serves the needs of man, the world functions peacefully. When the world functions peacefully, man is free to contemplate his self-nature and consider the essential problem, the problem of birth and death.
You should know where you came from and where you are going. As it is, "murky we come and confused we go." It is important to investigate the self-nature by reflecting inwardly. If you practice inward contemplation, then no longer will you be moved by the confusion of society. When you see your self-nature, you will naturally understand science and philosophy.
Mr. Fox: That certainly sounds ideal, but I don't think that all men can become of one mind in this pursuit. We are all different. Each individual has his own natural inclinations, and it is not certain that all men can accomplish this work.
Venerable Master: You are absolutely right. Only a few people have the "roots," the natural inclination and ability, to study and practice the Great Vehicle Buddhadharma. For that matter, few people even encounter it. Among those, fewer yet can practice and penetrate its principles. It is difficult, but if we can do what is most difficult, that is true accomplishment. Some people come to study and stay for a few days, but they are unable to endure and have to leave.
If one person understands true principle, then he can do what has to be done. If ten people understand true principle, then they can do what has to be done. Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, in teaching and transforming living beings, do not worry if the teachings are not received. If people understand and become enlightened, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are happy. If no one understands and nobody becomes enlightened, then the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are still happy.
Greed prevents man from solving the essential problems. It obscures his vision of the self-nature. For example, one of my disciples wants to learn about spiritual power, but as long as he is greedy for spiritual power, he will be unable to obtain it.
Now the Buddhadharma is scarce in the West. All unenlightened people are confused about something, and only the proper Dharma can resolve this confusion. It follows that your son's decision to become a Bhikshu and study the Dharma is extremely important. Where does confusion come from? Greed is the basic cause: greed for food, sleep, beautiful forms, wealth and fame. Everyone has desires which are based on greed, and it is difficult to put them down. I teach my disciples to be strong in the control of desire. However, I do not use force. I merely show them the way. Whether or not they follow is up to them. To teach a method which is contrary to this would be like using a rock to beat down grass. If you try to keep down grass by pounding on it with a stone, it grow back thick and strong. Rather than do that, I go after the roots, the basic causes.
Mr. Fox: I admire the principles that you have spoken and the students who work so vigorously to study them. Previously I was worried about my son, but now I am at ease.
Venerable Master: When you go back to work, do not worry about things that are already past. While doing things, use your wisdom to ensure that they are done well. When they are completed, do not continue to think about them. Quiet your mind. It is best to view life as a play, and not think of it as being too real; then fewer worries and problems will bother you. You will be able to come and go with freedom and independence. If what is good and what is not good are seen as fundamentally without difference, then you are without problems, without the slightest bit of trouble. If you discriminate good as good, and not good as not good, then you are turned by external states of mind. If you run after these outside states, then the more you run, the further you stray from your original home. If you are not moved, you remain in your original home. View your body as if it were heaven and earth. Although heaven and earth include between them all the ten thousand things, nevertheless they are not separate. If you understand this principle, nothing in the world can torment or worry you. Isn't this wonderful?
Dharma, the teaching of the Buddha, universally penetrates. There are no fixed dharmas. Dharmas are constant like the water of a river which flows smoothly on and is not attached in any place. If you say that a dharma is fixed, then it immediately becomes a dead dharma. The Vajra Sutra says, "One should produce the thought that dwells nowhere. " This is what is meant by "no fixed dharma."
An example of an unfixed dharma is the relationship between parents and children which is established by parents in such a way that children will be filial and respectful. But some children beat and kill their parents. How then can this dharma of filial piety be fixed? Some parents frequently scold their children. Others think their children are wonderful, and spoil them. Neither of these follows the way of filial piety, so this dharma is not fixed among parents either. Nothing is permanent or certain.
We have discussed technological progress. Man has invented many things which are of great benefit. However, man has also invented hydrogen and atomic bombs. With these have come various bizarre diseases that are difficult to cure. Modern conveniences bring both benefit and disaster. Therefore, in the midst of good there is bad; in \ the midst of bad there is good.
Before there were trains and buses, there were no derailments or bus accidents; consequently, no one was killed in such disasters. People used to die at home. Now there are far more untimely, unexpected deaths. Airplanes suddenly fall out of the sky. This is just like "eating" people. Long ago, there were more tigers to worry about, but one tiger ate only one or two people at a time. Now one derailment or airplane crash "eats" hundreds of people. When personal safety was just a matter of avoiding tigers, we could take precautions, we could walk on tiptoe. But, now there is no way for a passenger to ensure his safety against a derailment or airplane crash. This is an example of the dharma of opposition. For everything, there is an opposite; good opposes bad and confusion opposes understanding. What is true opposes the false.
Mr.Fox: It's not the planes, trains, and other machines, but the people who build, use, and maintain them that cause the accidents.
Venerable Master: That is true. Disasters result from karma, from the actions of living beings. Therefore, one cannot say that the machines are either good or bad.
Two thousand years ago, if people had been told about airplanes,buses, and other self-powered vehicles, they would not have believedthat these could exist. Moreover, if a plane had flown overhead at thatvery moment, it might well have been worshipped as a god. But now,we know that a plane is just a plane, a thing made by man, the fruit ofscientific and technological progress.
To be continued |
