If you don’t recognize these states, it will be easy to take the wrong path.

Ven. Master: In our investigation of the Fifty Skandha-demon States, everyone is welcome to bring up his opinion. We want to use everyone's wisdom to investigate the principles. Because we are in the Dharma-ending Age, everyone is greedy for quick results and shortcuts. They think they can get a lucky break. It's just as when people gamble, they think they can win at the first try. So some people go to a lot of different places to study in the Secret School and various other sects. They hear this place has something to offer, so they go there. Then they hear that place has something, so they run over there. Running here and there, they waste all their time on the road; but in the end, they don't understand anything. Now everyone should recognize this kind of state. If you don't recognize these states, it will be easy to take the wrong path.

We should act as if the Buddha were right in front of us, as if we were facing the Buddhas and gods, and as if we were drawing near to our teachers. We should be very serious about this work. Don't laugh casually, because if you laugh, it shows that you're taking this matter too lightly. This is the time to study, and we must keep studying the states, one by one, until we finish. Then everyone will have a better understanding. Right now we've just started studying, and some will understand, while others won't. When each of you comes to the front, you are not here to ask questions, but just to investigate what you have seen and understood with everyone else. If you don't understand, you can read over the Sutra text a few more times, and then you will naturally understand.

You are here not just to ask questions, but to investigate them. We are all studying together, and no one is necessarily the one to answer questions, because wisdom is equal in everyone. In our investigation, if everyone agrees that a principle is correct, then it is correct. We are gathering everyone's opinions, and when we publish The Fifty Skandha Demon States in the future, each person's opinion should be included. This is a joint investigation, not one person answering others' questions. Anyone can express an opinion. In the spirit of investigation, everyone is equal. There is no need to request the Dharma or do anything special. Everyone should participate in the investigation together. Regard this as a scholarly investigation. No one is debating with anyone else, and anyone can express his or her opinion. Do you all think this is a good method?

QUESTION: “There in the Dharma Assembly, inexplicably, that person may obtain an enormous precious pearl. The demon may sometimes change into an animal.” Is this another demon?

Ven. Master: No, it's the same one.

Question: Does the person possessed by the demon transform into an animal?

Ven. Master: Yes! To everyone, he appears to be an animal. He takes on a bizarre appearance. The text says, "First, the demon gives them to the person, and afterwards possesses him." "The person" is the one who seeks knowledge of past lives.

Question: The person who seeks knowledge of past lives is already possessed by a demon, has changed into an animal, and is also holding the pearl and other gems in his mouth?

Ven. Master: He gives them to the people who are listening to the Dharma. It's not just one person. Perhaps he selects one among them. This is all hypothetical. Does it really happen that way? Not necessarily. It's only hypothetical. You shouldn't think that just because the Buddha said it, it has to be that way. This is only an example, and everyone should be able to understand similar situations by inference. Don't be so rigid. You have to be flexible in your understanding, so the next time such a situation occurs, you'll know, "Oh! This is the same as that example." Here he turns into an animal, but in another case he might turn into a Buddha.

Question: What about when it "afterwards possesses him"? Whom does the demon possess?

Ven. Master: The demon possesses everyone.

Question: Are there other demons which come to possess everyone?

Ven. Master: No, the same demon can have innumerable division bodies. It can possess that person as well as other people.

Question: Oh, so it jumps around from one to the other.

Ven. Master: It doesn't jump. It isn't just one; it can transform into many.

Question: Oh, so it can possess you, and it can also possess someone else. I never knew demons were so powerful!

Ven. Master: Demons are about as powerful as Buddhas. It's just that the one is deviant and the other is proper. What demons do is deviant, and what Buddhas do is proper. That's the difference. There is a person from Taiwan who has had this kind of experience. We can ask him to speak about them now. Tell everyone the whole story about how the demon transmitted the mind-dharma to you.

Manifesting to Speak the Dharma

Layman: Venerable Master, Dharma Masters, and Good and Wise Advisors: I will talk about my experiences in non-Buddhist religions, what I saw and understood. Perhaps my experiences are not quite the same as the states caused by the celestial demons described by the Buddha. The celestial demons can transform in endless ways, and what I saw is only one of their methods, not all their states. I will share my experience, but keep in mind that it is not the whole picture. The celestial demons manifest in many ways. One way involves going through a medium. Another way does not involve a medium. If you cultivate external paths with an improper mind, the demon need not go through a medium. As you are sitting in meditation, the celestial demon can directly manifest in the form of a person.

This Sutra passage says, "There in the Dharma Assembly, inexplicably, that person may obtain an enormous precious pearl." Because it says "There in the Dharma Assembly," I think that there are three parties: the medium, the speaker of Dharma, and the listeners. The Venerable Master interprets "the person" as referring to the possessed person. That is one interpretation. However, from what I understand and from the other interpretations I've read, I think “the person” refers to someone who hasn't been possessed yet. Why? Because the Buddha spoke the Shurangama Sutra in order to warn those who are not yet possessed, but whose minds have already strayed off the right track. If they are not alert, they will be possessed by demons. The Buddha wants to warn them. When the skandhas of form, feeling, and thinking come to an end, you should be especially cautious, for you may experience many of these states, and you need to know how to deal with them.

Two years ago, I went to the home of a layman who shaved his head just like a monk. He said that while meditating, a celestial demon possessed him and said, “Let me give you a 'wordless book from heaven,' or such and such a sutra." The reason people went there in the first place was they wanted a quick way to get enlightened. At that Way-place, they used all kinds of methods, and every day I either saw or heard them talk about every one of the first thirty skandha demon states.

For example, I saw the tallies, gems, and treasure troves. I also witnessed them eating meals of one sesame seed and one grain of wheat, or eating gluttonously. For example, in the case of “obtaining an enormous pearl" when you are meditating, someone will say, “May I give you this pearl?" If your mind moves and you wish to have it, then through the medium, you stretch your hands out to take it. Once you accept it, you are in for trouble.

I'll talk about my personal experience. When I went to a certain place two years ago, he told me, "I can give you a 'wordless book from heaven.' If you practice it for three years, you can obtain great spiritual powers." That day my mind was a little swayed, and I thought, "If you want to give me a 'wordless book from heaven,' fine." He said, "To accept it, lift both your hands, and I will give it to you." After I received it, I went home, and the next day I kept reciting things which I did not understand. It sounded like Japanese, and then Thai, and then I was singing army songs dating from the time of the Japanese Emperor of the Meiji reign, which I had never sung before. Actually my voice is pretty bad, but when I was singing those army songs, I could sing very high and very low, and it sounded better than the singers on television. I think the 'wordless book from heaven' is something like the tallies mentioned in the Sutra.

There are two possibilities in the place where the Dharma is spoken. The first is that you have not been possessed by the demon, and you have no way to see what is happening. If you have not ended the form skandha, then you cannot see, either. In the other case, when you are meditating, the possessed person can see, and so can you.

So there are two possibilities. In one case, you and the possessed person are both in samadhi, and you can see whatever he gives you. You can also see the external state, but in fact it is an illusion conjured up by that person. In the other case, you cannot see, but your mind moves. The other person says, "Can I give you such and such a thing?" and if you say, "Yes," then things change. Actually, celestial demons have their own rules to follow, and if you say, "I don't want it," then they cannot possess you. As far as I know, all the external paths in Taiwan are in the first thirty skandha-demon states, before the thinking, activities, and consciousness skandhas have ended.

I'm saying that maybe in such situations, the celestial demons will appear in these ways to harm you and keep you from attaining the Way. Since everyone's level of cultivation is different, they appear in different ways each time. I just wanted to offer this for everyone's consideration, Amitabha!

Ven. Master: There are not only fifty kinds of skandha demons. Rather, there may be five hundred, five thousand, fifty thousand, or even five hundred thousand kinds. Each kind can further be divided into ten kinds. If analyzed in detail, there are thousands upon tens of thousands of kinds. In general, what is a skandha-demon? Basically it's nothing but a mass of yin energy. Where does this mass of yin energy come from? It comes from our yin (negative, dark) thoughts. Yin thoughts include thoughts of greed, anger, stupidity, and so on. They cause form, feeling, thought, activities and consciousness to arise, and in each of these skandhas, all kinds of yin phenomena are produced. These yin phenomena naturally appear when your skill reaches a certain level. If your skill hasn't reached that level, then you won't encounter these skandha-demons, even if you want to. If your skill has reached that level, then they will manifest. Don't worry when they appear. There's no need to fear being possessed by demons. Don't be afraid. What should you do? When these yin phenomena appear, you should remain calm, as if they didn't exist. See them as if not seeing them, and hear them as if not hearing them. Look at them without seeing them, and listen to them without hearing them. Smell them without perceiving their smell. If you don't enter into sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches and dharmas, then the skandha-demons can't do anything to you. If you can be without greed, anger and stupidity, then you will have subdued these skandha-demons. If you don't have the faults of being selfish, wanting personal profit, seeking, being greedy, or contending, then no demon will be able to do anything to you.

Therefore, now as we are investigating the skandha-demons, we should not be afraid of demons. There's no need for fear. What is this mass of energy like? There is a rough analogy. It's like when water boils, it gives off steam. The rising of the steam indicates that the water is boiling. The demons which you encounter in cultivation are illusory transformations produced from the yin thoughts and yin energy in your own nature. If you can remain unmoved by these illusory transformations, then there's no problem. For example, when you boil water and the steam rises, there's nothing strange about that. After the steam has risen, the water can be drunk. When a person manifests demonic energy, it's like gold being smelted. All the dross elements are smelted away, leaving only pure gold. Cultivation is like smelting gold. It is said, "True gold does not fear the fire of the furnace." You must smelt the pure gold and forge your Vajra-indestructible body. To obtain the Vajra-indestructible body, you must apply effort in cultivation at all times, in thought after thought. No matter what level you reach in your cultivation, do not become happy or afraid. This is a most essential and basic way for cultivators to resolve demonic obstacles.

QUESTION: Since this person is able to see events which happened within twenty thousand, forty thousand, and even eighty thousand great eons, why is he unable to see people being reborn in other paths as they undergo transmigration?

Ven. Master: This is a very interesting question. You must realize that although the text says he can see for twenty thousand great eons, this is a false state in control. One thought is equal to limitless eons, and limitless eons are one thought. He feels it is twenty thousand eons, but this is not for sure, because he is still turning about in a false state. He is being controlled by false thinking, so he experiences this false state which is totally unreal. That's why he sees pigs being pigs for twenty thousand eons, and cows being cows for twenty thousand eons, too. He feels that it's really that way, but his perception is not correct. If it were really twenty thousand eons, then of course pigs in the cycle of transmigration would not remain pigs during all that time! Since he claims that it is this way, that already shows that everything about him is false. When he says he can see for twenty thousand great eons, that doesn't necessarily mean it is really twenty thousand great eons. That's only his own feeling. He perceives it that way.

Consider for instance Mr. Wu from Taiwan, who said, "Ah! I feel that I was together with so-and-so in the Sixth Patriarch's Dharma Assembly during the Tang Dynasty.” This is just the kind of state we are discussing. The very fact that he feels this to be the case already indicates that it is not true. If it were true, there would have to be some evidence, and he shouldn't go around advertising himself. If it were as he said, how could he bear to leave so soon after being reunited? Has he really put everything down? No. And why is he thinking about going back to Taiwan to do this and that? Whether it is black or white, wholesome dharmas or evil dharmas: if you can recognize them, then you'll be all right. If you don't recognize them, then you'll be all muddled and confused. You can't tell what's true, and you don't understand what's false. All day long, you're just jumping to conclusions without carefully analyzing things, and that's pretty bad.

Therefore, we are investigating the Shurangama Sutra. We should constantly investigate the Shurangama Sutra. That's why the couplet on the main entrance to our monastery says, “The Avatamsaka Dharma Assembly and the Shurangama Platform." We are in the Shurangama Platform, and so now we are investigating the Fifty Skandha-demons, and then we will study the Perfect Penetration of the Twenty-five Sages. After that, we can investigate the Four Clear, Unalterable Instructions on Purity. In this way, we will investigate the Shurangama Sutra, passage by passage, section by section, until we understand it clearly. Nowadays, these demon retinues, goblins, ghosts, and freaks only say that the Shurangama Sutra is false. When they say that, people become doubtful and lose their faith. “Ah! The Shurangama Sutra is false; no matter how you talk, it's false." That's what these people say, you see.

We believe in reason, so whether they say it's true or false, as long as it makes sense, we will believe it. If it doesn't make sense, if it doesn't accord with the proper Dharma and the precepts, then even if what they say is true, we will assume it to be false. How can we distinguish the true from the false? We have to discriminate between black dharmas and white dharmas. Don't be so muddled that you say deviant knowledge and deviant views are correct, and proper knowledge and proper views are incorrect. If you do, you have seriously inverted black and white and right and wrong.

If we have such ideas, we will have no eyes in the future. That's because we can't tell black from white. People with deviant knowledge and deviant views will also undergo the retribution of being without eyes, because they blind people's eyes, preventing them from finding the right path. All of you should pay especially close attention to this. The law of cause and effect is very serious, and it's never off by a bit. In my experience during this life, I know that we cannot do even the slightest wrong deed, for if we do, the retribution will come.

→To be continued