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國府司法院長林洋港伉儷，驅車前往舊金山南邊的柏林根市國際譯經學院參見宣化上人，晤談將近三十分鐘。話題觸及中國前途、美國現況、治國方針等等。以下是這場對話的摘要：
林洋港（以下簡稱林）：上人，您看目前的中華民國－我們國內，您覺得有什麼事情要提示我？有沒有要我注意的事，您覺得不放心？
上人：諸惡莫作，眾善奉行。對有利於民，無不行者。要為老百姓謀幸福，不是為個人謀幸福。「大道之行也，天下為公。故人不獨親其親，不獨子其子。」如果能依照這禮運大同篇去做，國家就可以治好。
林：是，是。
上人：「鰥寡孤獨廢疾者，皆有所養。」要注意鰥寡孤獨。好像美國這個地方，有很多愚不可及的政策。例如：發給沒有工作的人失業救濟金，把人都養成一種無賴、懶惰的遊民。政府應該給他們工作，讓他們做了工才能領錢。不然，這些人坐著，也不做工就拿錢，什麼也不幹，就學些吸毒、販毒的事，這是治國最不明智的政策。又拚命向做工的人收稅，這太不公平了。還有鼓勵人生小孩，要是沒有爸爸，政府就給錢，生多少都給錢。造成這個國家的小孩沒有父親，甚至沒有母親的，不知有多少。國也不像個國，家也不像個家，人也不像個人了。尤其這個國家儘量鼓勵人同性戀，這是亡國滅種的行為，這是違背天地造化的。如果這是正確的，人類早就沒有了。
我們中國的前途會變好的，要好好的努力。
林：希望能變好，我們有責任使它變好。
上人：當政的人，一定要有聰明智慧，愚癡是不可以的。毛澤東有幹勁，但他不聰明。他死了，我寫了一首詩紀念他，我是照他所說的話來寫的。我說：
要與天公試比高，
無數英雄競折腰。
秦皇漢武輸文釆，
唐宗宋祖遜風騷。
成吉思汗非真勇，
洪武朱明更草包。
愛新覺羅隨流水，
難看今朝澤東毛。
為什麼說他「難看今朝」呢？他選一個繼承人，繼承人要殺他，他如果有智慧，怎麼會選中這個繼承人呢？不會的。他要是有智慧，怎麼會自己死了，屍骨未寒，老婆孩子就都被人抓起來，造成這個局面，是身敗名裂嘛！所以我說，難看今朝就是毛澤東。
布希上次競選總統的時候，我也去幫他助選的。我到那兒講演說：「我是中國人，我現在在美國住，我也有權選擇一位好的總統。什麼叫好的總統呢？總統不要錢，總統不拿薪水，總統要盡義務，總統不爭、不貪、不求、不自私、不自利、不打妄語。」不要像雷根似的，五歲的小孩子都知道他打妄語，這樣怎麼做總統呢？我說：「這回布希，我希望他也不爭、不貪、不求、不自私、不自利、不打妄語，這樣才是個好總統。能這樣一定當選，不能這樣就不能當選。」
林：哦！那他這次競選連任，上人您對他的看法是怎樣？
上人：連任，可能還選得上；但是他若沒有所作為，即他不足為天下法。
林：哦！哦！謝謝上人，我要告辭了，恭祝您福壽康寧。
上人：好的，希望你前途光明遠大。無論做什麼，不要像共產黨那麼貪污就好了。
林：我大概不會，（笑）這一點倒是敢向上人來報告。
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The Minister of Justice Lin Yang Gang and his wife from the Republic of China (R.O.C.) came to the International Translation Institute in Burlingame, just south of San Francisco, to call on the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua. They spoke for almost thirty minutes, touching on such topics as the future of China, the current situation in America, and the principles of managing a nation. A record of their dialogue follows:
Lin: Venerable Master, how do you see the current situation in the Republic of China, our country? Do you have anything you want to point out to me? Is there anything I need to pay attention to, that you might worry about?
Master Hua: Don't do any evil. Do only meritorious acts. Do only the things that benefit people. You should work only for the common people's welfare, not for your own. "How the Great Way works is that you do everything for the people, and so a person should treat all people as though they were his own close relatives, and his very own children." If you can follow this chapter from Confucius'
The Great Unity through the Functioning of Propriety, then you will be able to manage the nation very well.
Lin: Yes, yes.
Master Hua: In the chapter, it says, "All the widowers, widows, and those who are solitary, elderly, and handicapped, are provided for." Pay attention to widowers, widows, and lonely people. In the U.S., there are many stupid policies. For example, paying welfare to unemployed people merely encourages people to turn into rascals and lazy vagrants. The government should give them work and pay them for it. Otherwise, they just sit around taking money without working. They don't have to do anything, and they just learn to take drugs and intoxicants and sell them as well. It is very unfair the way the government does its best to tax the working people. This is such an unwise policy of managing a nation.
Also, this policy encourages single American women to have more children. If there is no father, the government will pay for them, no matter how many children they have. This results in countless children without fathers, and sometimes even without mothers. A nation no longer seems like a nation, a family no longer seems like a family, and people no longer seem like people. This country, especially, encourages homosexuality to the best of its ability, and this amounts to national genocide. This goes against the universal nature. If this were really proper, humanity would have ended long ago.
The future of our China will take a turn for the better. You need to strive for it.
Lin: I hope it will become better. We have the duty to make it better.
Master Hua: The people in power must have intelligence and wisdom. They cannot be stupid. Mao-tse-tung had vigor but he wasn't intelligent. When he died, I wrote a poem in memory of him. I based it on his own words:
He wanted to compare his height with the heavens;
Countless heroes compete to bow in homage;
Emperors Chin Shr and Han Wu
Were lacking in literary grace;
Emperor Tang Jung and Sung Dzu
Were deficient in poetic excellence;
Genghis Khan was not truly brave;
Emperor Ming Tai was even more ignorant;
The Ching Dynasty followed the running water;
Ugliest of all to behold is Mao-tse-tong of today's dynasty.
Why do I say he is ugly to see today? He chose a successor but his successor wanted to kill him. If he had any wisdom, would he have chosen such a successor? If he had wisdom, then why were his wife and children captured right after his death, when his corpse was still warm? He brought disgrace and ruin on himself. That is why I said it's ugly to behold Mao-tse-tung today.
The management of a nation should be based on eight principles: investigating things, making knowledge complete, making thoughts sincere, rectifying the mind, cultivating the person, regulating the families, governing the states, and making the world peaceful. If one can abide by these eight principles, then any nation's affairs can be administered.
Why aren't countries being run properly now? It is because the people in power basically are not good. Their minds are off base. They seek only their own fame and profit. Surely it seems the nations are being plunged into deep waters and scorching fires. In addition to all this, there is the Communist Party. It is even more fierce than those deep waters and scorching fires. Currently, in mainland China, everyone uses the "back doors." What kind of a country of this? No one uses the front doors. How shameful!
Lin: Yes, yes, thank you.
Master Hua: Last time, when Bush was running for President, I supported him. I gave a lecture saying, "I am a Chinese person and I currently live in the U.S. I have the right to vote for a good president. What can we call a good president? A good president shouldn't take money, not even a salary. He should fulfill his official obligation. A president should uphold the principles of: no fighting, no greed, no seeking, not being selfish, not pursuing self-benefit, and no lying."
A good president should not be like Ronald Reagan. Even a child of five years knows that he told lies. How can he be a president acting like that?
I said, "This time, unless Bush can satisfy these principles of no fighting, no greed, no seeking, not being selfish, not pursuing self-benefit, and no lying, he will not be a good president. If he can be this way, he will surely be elected. But if not, he cannot get elected."
Lin: Oh! Then this time he is campaigning for a second time. How do you see that?
Master Hua: He'll probably be elected again, but if he does not accomplish anything, he will not be a good model for the people.
Lin: Oh, thank you. Venerable Master, I need to take leave. I wish you respectfully, luck, longevity, good health and tranquility.
Master Hua: OK. I hope you have a bright and immense future. Whatever you do, do not become corrupted like the Communist Party.
Lin: I probably won't (laughed). I dare to report to the Venerable Master about this point.
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