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爾時。淨光普照主空
神。承佛威力。普觀一切主空神眾。而說頌言。
本來是要講這個「爾時」，這「爾時淨
光普照主空神」。要講這個爾時，最初的爾時很多，在前邊最初那個爾時，我也忘了怎麼樣講的來著。那麼現在講到後邊這個爾時呢，就都馬馬虎虎過去了，你們各
位對於這個爾時有什麼講法，今天我們儘量發揮，看你們每一個人對這個爾時有什麼認識，講的是不是一樣？我們今天的時間不太多了，還可以有十分鐘的時間，在
這十分鐘，不是說誰願意講就講，誰不願意講就不講，這回各個都要講。我們這回是常常在這兒聽經、或者在金山寺住的人都要講，我們怎麼樣講法呢？這麼樣子，
我看先由果護那兒開始，「你講完了叫他們跟著你講，就由你那兒，這一個一個的，這麼樣子一排一排地往後排去。」
恆守：中文的意思是「爾時」，指釋迦
牟尼佛坐在菩提樹下初成正覺時，所以經文中很多地方講到「爾時」。
上人：看見他人死，我心熱如火，
不是熱他人，看看輪到我。
恆靜：經文中講「爾時」時，指「此
時」。就是指經中我們要來到的時候，或者沒有時候。
上人：已經死了。
恆靜：是的。
上人：什麼死了？
恆靜：一切「我相」都消滅了，就是佛
初成正覺的時候，這不是發生在某一個時候，因為正覺遍一切時，佛看一切眾生同時成正覺。
佛說法
沒有一個時候，沒有定時的， 上無古，下無今，佛是時時都說法的，這是應眾生的知見說有一個時候。
There is not
any time when the Buddha speaks the Dharma. There is only said to be a
time to accord with the knowledge and views of living beings. Actually
there is no fixed time. Before there is no past, and afterwards there
is no present. The Buddha is speaking the Dharma at all times.
上人：這個經文說的「爾時」說得明明
白白，這個爾，又可以當「你那個」講，又可以當就是「你那個時候」，什麼時候呢？就是你聽見《華嚴經》這個時候，這個是「爾」。但是我相信沒有人這麼樣講
的，這是今天第一次。那麼既然是你那個時候，又可以說是我這個時候了，因為你和我是一樣的。你有這個時候，我為什麼沒有這個時候呢？這也是我這個時候。你
我這個時候是個什麼時候呢？是佛講《大方廣佛華嚴經》的時候。說：「那過去很久了！」就因為那個，所以叫爾時，是那個時候。你方才講得對了，又可以說就是
這個時候。怎麼就是這個時候呢？就是你我現在研究《華嚴經》這個時候。若不是這個時候，說是那個時候，那麼那個時候與我們有什麼關係？我們那時候也或者在
那個地方呢，或者在那個法會上，或者不在；就是在，也或者忘了，況且沒有什麼證據。說：「哦，那我那時候就是哪一個神，或者哪一個菩薩。」那你這時候是個
什麼？這時候你是個什麼神？是個什麼菩薩？
所以呢，這個爾時講起
來，這理論很多很多的，可惜現在又沒有一個時候了。那麼又可以說是在那個時候我們沒有聽見，我們不講那個時候；我們現在看見這《華嚴經》，就在這個時候。
不錯，佛說法沒有一個時候，沒有定時的，上無古，下無今，佛是時時都說法的，這是應眾生的知見說有一個時候。這個爾時，就是因為眾生這種的俗知俗見，才有
這一個爾時說出來的。今天這話怎麼說也說不完的，又是沒有時候了。這是很有意義的，很有意思的，我們大家共同等禮拜五再研究，我們把它一定要研究到看看有
沒有時候。因為時無定時，沒有一定的，你說這個時候，這個時候又過去了；你說這個時候，這個時候就又過去了，所以說過去、現在、未來都無有定法。唉！不要
胡說。
（一九七三年十一月一日星期四）
各位善知識，我們昨天研究這個爾時還
沒有研究完了，並且有人已經講過的，以後又想：「我還有很多的道理沒有講完呢！」那麼既然沒有講完，今天可以再重複來講一講，來說一說，我們必須把這個真
正的義理顯露出來，令在座的各位都明了，才算過去這一關。你們不要以為我講的，就完全都對的，我所講的只是一知半解，還有很多甚深微妙的道理在這經藏裡邊
所包容著。我們各人迴光返照，利用你自己本有的般若慧劍，來分析這個法的義理。不要只知道我講的，而你們自己所有的，不能發掘出來。
我們現在以這寶貴的光陰，來研究這個
無窮的妙理。各人不要等著其他人講完了，我就不要講了，所謂「當仁不讓於師」，這個仁呢，我們改了它，現在是「當義不讓於師」。我們一定要把這個義比你師
父所說的更好、更圓滿，這是我對你們的希望。並且你這個意思若講得圓滿了，你們就是我的師父，我們大家沒有高低上下，沒有階級的觀念，研究道理不應該有一
個階級的觀念，大家平等平等的。看你自己的智慧，要是超過一切的善知識，那你就是第一個善知識，我也願意跟第一個善知識來學習，你們誰願意做第一的善知
識，我都歡喜的；不要像我盡做最後的那個善知識。你們要做 first（第一），不要做 last one（最後），我是做什麼都要做 last
one，所以就沒有什麼大出息了，你們都應該比我好得多。
你也不要生一種貢高的邪知邪見，說：
「現在我就是第一了，我比誰都勝過一切了。啊！我可以把我的師父都打倒了，何況其他呢！」就目空一切，這個就犯了一種貢高的病。不對，你說對；對，你說不
對，這都是邪知邪見，必須要有真正的擇法眼。你不能沒有事情找事情來幹，沒有毛病找毛病來說，這就是不對的。必須要存一種正知正見，就是有真正的智慧，有
真正的般若光明，照破一切的黑暗，這才是對的。你不要認為比丘也都是不如我，比丘尼更不如我，優婆塞那更沒有用，優婆夷，不要提她。那麼你若這樣子一想，
天上天下唯你獨尊了，那簡直地這個虛空你要把它脹碎了、脹爆開了，那將來是不可救藥了。把虛空都給脹破了，沒有地方放你了，這是要緊的，要知道的。
上人：你們昨天講的，有沒有還沒講完
的意思？若有沒講完的，可以再重複一下，我們今天呢，請妙法師來給做一個評判的尊者。
妙淨法師：不敢。
上人：什麼叫不敢？〔於是上人對某弟
子說〕他因為他不懂英文。他沒說是這個理由，可是就是這個理由。（討論）現在他說懂了一點。你呢？
恆靜：有一點可以講。
上人：我覺得你有一點，所以就不能不
叫你講。
恆靜：這個「爾時」是兩個字，昨天師
父講了這個「爾」字，現在講多一點這個「時」字，因為昨天沒有說這個「時」，所以現在要講這個「時」字。這個「時」––這個時候、時間，是有種種的時間。
所以要說這個是什麼時候、什麼時間，大概可以分十個時候。第一…
上人：有一個吃飯的時候，有一個睡覺
的時候。
恆靜：有一個吃飯的時候，有一個睡覺
的時候。
待續
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Sutra:
At that time the Emptiness-Ruling Spirit
named Pure Light Shining Everywhere received the Buddha
awesome might, universally contemplated all the multitudes of
Emptiness-Ruling Spirits, and spoke the following verses.
Commentary:
Venerable Master: Actually, we were
supposed to be explaining “at that time” in: At that time the
Emptiness-Ruling Spirit named Pure Light Shining Everywhere. We
have had the phrase “at that time” over and over already, and I’ve
forgotten how I explained it the first time. In the recent occurences
of the phrase, we’ve given perfunctory explanations. Today we’ll do our
best to bring out what each of you understand concerning “at that
time,” and see if it’s the same. There’s not much time left today—just
ten minutes more. During those ten minutes, it’s not that whoever wants
to speak will speak, and whoever doesn’t want to doesn’t have to. This
time, everyone has to talk. Anyone who comes regularly to the Sutra
lectures, or who lives at Gold Mountain Monastery, must speak. What
method shall we follow? I think we can start with Guo Hu. After you
talk, you can have each one who comes after you speak in order.
Heng Shou: The
Chinese phrase means “at that time,” referring to the time when
Shakyamuni Buddha was sitting under the Bodhi tree and had first
realized Buddhahood. So, many places in the text say “at that time.”
Venerable Master: When
I learn of someone else’s death,
My heart burns as if with fire.
It does not burn for the other person,
But because death is heading my way.
Heng Ching: When
it says “at that time,” it means “at this time.” How? It’s this time
we’re coming to, that point in the text (etc.); or at no time.
Venerable Master:
It has died.
Heng Ching: Yes.
Venerable Master: What
has died?
Heng Ching: All
marks of self have perished. It is when the Buddha first
accomplishes Enlightenment, which doesn’t happen in a single
time; for the time of Enlightenment pervades all times, and the Buddha
sees all beings become enlightened at the same time.
Venerable Master: The
text says “at that time,” and says it very clearly. “That” could be
interpreted as “your,” because the Chinese character can also mean
“you” or “your.” Then the phrase would mean “at your time.” What time
of yours is that? It’s whenever you are listening to the Flower
Adornment Sutra. However, I don’t think anyone has ever explained it
that way before, and today must be the first time. Since it’s your
time, it could also be said to be my time, since you and I are the
same. You have that time, so why shouldn’t I have it? So it’s also my
time. What time is it which is both yours and mine? It’s the time when
the Buddha speaks the Great Means Expansive Buddha Flower Adornment
Sutra.
“But that was a long time in
the past,” you may object. That’s the very reason it says, “At
that time.” What then is the connection between that time and our time?
At that time we may have been there in the Dharma Assembly, or perhaps
we were not. Even if we were there, we may have forgotten; and in any
case there is no way to verify it.
You may object, “Oh, at that time
I was such and such a Spirit, or such and such a Bodhisattva.” Well,
what you are now? What Spirit are you at this time, or what
Bodhisattva? Consequently, there are a great many principles which
could be discussed in connection with “at that time,” but unfortunately
we don’t have the time now. We could also say since we didn’t hear it
at that time, we won’t talk about that time. We are currently looking
at the Flower Adornment Sutra, and so it is this time. You are correct
when you say there is not any time when the Buddha speaks the Dharma.
There is only said to be a time to accord with the knowledge and views
of living beings. Actually there is no fixed time. Before there is no
past, and afterwards there is no present. The Buddha is speaking the
Dharma at all times. Therefore, “at that time” is only put in as a
statement because of the worldly knowledge and worldly outlook of
living beings.
過去、現在、未來
都無有定法。
Past,
present, and future all have no precision about them.
We can’t finish talking about this today, because
we don’t have time. This is very meaningful, and we will continue to
investigate it together next time. We absolutely have to find out
whether there is a time or not. That’s because there is nothing fixed
about time, since it’s imprecise. As soon as you say it’s this time,
this time has already passed. You try to pin-point it as another time,
and that time is already gone. Therefore, past, present, or future all
have no precision about them. Ah! Let’s not ramble on.
[November 1, 1973 Thursday]
Good and Wise Advisors, yesterday
we did not complete our investigation of “at that time.” Also, after
some of the people spoke, they thought to themselves, “There are still
a lot of principles which I didn’t finish explaining!” Well, since you
didn’t finish, today we can continue the discussion. We absolutely have
to bring the actual meaning to light, enabling all of us here to
understand. Only then have we made it through the gate. You shouldn’t
consider my lectures to be totally correct. In what I say there is only
partial knowledge and incomplete understanding. Far more deep,
profound, and wonderful principles are still stored in the Treasury of
Sutras. All of you should look within yourselves, employ the sword of
your own inherent Prajna wisdom, and analyze the meaning of this
Dharma. You shouldn’t just know what I lecture, and not be able to make
your own personal discoveries.
Right now we’re using this
precious time to investigate these wondrous, inexhaustible principles.
None of you should simply wait for others to complete their talks and
figure there’s no need for you to speak. As the proverb reminds us:
“When it comes to humaneness, one does not even yield to one’s
Teacher.” We can change “humaneness” and say instead: “When it comes to
meaning, one does not even yield to one’s Teacher.” You definitely need
to explain the meaning better and more fully than your Master. That’s
what I hope from you. Moreover, if you can present a fuller explanation
of the meaning, you become my teacher. There should be no differences
of high or low among us, and we shouldn’t have considerations of rank.
The investigation of principle should not take status into account. All
of us are equal. It just depends on your own wisdom—if your wisdom
surpasses that of all other Good and Wise Advisors, then you are the
foremost Good and Wise Advisor. I myself also wish to learn from the
Good and Wise Advisor who is out in front. I will be delighted if one
of you wants to be Good and Wise Advisor Number One. Don’t be like me,
always wanting to be the last Good and Wise Advisor. You should be
first; don’t be the last one. I like to be last in everything, and so I
don’t amount to much. You ought to be a lot better than I am.
On the other hand, you shouldn’t
develop a wrong-headed, deviant outlook of arrogance and proclaim, “Now
I’m Number One. I surpass everyone. I can knock down my Teacher, how
much the more anyone else.” If you look down on everyone in that way,
then you make the mistake of being conceited. Something is wrong but
you say it is right, and you claim that something which is right is
wrong. That’s having deviant knowledge and deviant views. You need to
possess an accurate eye for distinguishing dharmas. You can’t just go
around stirring up trouble when there is none, nit-picking for
nonexistent faults. That’s not right. The right way is to maintain
proper knowledge and proper vision, have genuine wisdom, authentic
Prajna light which dispels all darkness. You shouldn’t have the
attitude that no Bhikshu is as good as you, much less the Bhikshunis,
or that Upasakas are of even less use, not to mention Upasikas. As soon
as you have such thoughts, imagining that in the heavens and below you
alone are honored, virtually bursting empty space apart, then in the
future there will be no way to save you. Once you have blasted empty
space apart at the seams, there will be no place to hold you. This is
something important which you need to know.
Venerable Master:
Are there any meanings which you didn’t finish discussing yesterday? If
you have something more to say, we can go back over it. Today we’ll ask
Dharma Master Miao Yin to be the referee.
Dharma Master Miao Yin:
I could not presume to do so.
Venerable Master: Why
not? [to disciple Heng Ching] Oh, I know. It’s because he doesn’t
understand English. He didn’t give that as the reason, but that’s the
reason. [discussion] Now he says he understands a bit. What about
you?
Heng Ching: I
could say something.
Venerable Master:
I thought you had something to say, so I couldn’t fail to give you a
chance.
Heng Ching: Last
night’s lecture by the Master focused on the first two words of the
phrase “at that time,” so now we’ll concentrate on the word “time,”
which was not fully discussed yesterday. There are all different kinds
of time. However, if we try to describe what time it is, in general we
can distinguish ten kinds of time. The first is…
Venerable Master: There’s
a time to eat, and a time to sleep.
Heng Ching:
There’s a time to eat, and a time to sleep...
To be continued
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